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	<title>Comments on: Artificial Twinning</title>
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	<description>A collaborative blog advocating ethics in adoption</description>
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		<title>By: Eileen</title>
		<link>http://www.adoptionintegrity.com/2007/05/22/artificial-twinning/comment-page-1/#comment-2336</link>
		<dc:creator>Eileen</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 14 Dec 2008 00:37:28 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>Joanie,

I would be really interested in any research you may be aware of regarding the pros and cons of the simultaneous adoption of non-siblings compared to the adoption of siblings.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Joanie,</p>
<p>I would be really interested in any research you may be aware of regarding the pros and cons of the simultaneous adoption of non-siblings compared to the adoption of siblings.</p>
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		<title>By: Trish</title>
		<link>http://www.adoptionintegrity.com/2007/05/22/artificial-twinning/comment-page-1/#comment-1945</link>
		<dc:creator>Trish</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 15 Jul 2008 14:29:07 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>Joanie, apologies for snapping.  By now I really should&#039;ve learnt that reading these posts is very emotionally charged - and make sure that I&#039;m in the right frame of mind before responding!!!  Trish</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Joanie, apologies for snapping.  By now I really should&#8217;ve learnt that reading these posts is very emotionally charged &#8211; and make sure that I&#8217;m in the right frame of mind before responding!!!  Trish</p>
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		<title>By: Joanie</title>
		<link>http://www.adoptionintegrity.com/2007/05/22/artificial-twinning/comment-page-1/#comment-1921</link>
		<dc:creator>Joanie</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 29 Jun 2008 02:49:13 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.adoptionintegrity.com/2007/05/22/artificial-twinning/#comment-1921</guid>
		<description>Trish- Please forgive me if I gave any offense.
I would agree that the decison should not be based solely on what is best/convenient/desirous for the parent (although frequently if the parents are benefitted then the whole family- including any adopted children- also benefit).  I would even add that not everyone should be ALLOWED to adopt two unrelated children (just as not every family is allowed to adopt siblings or more than one child period). 

 Raising my bio twins has taught me alot about how to help them negotiate living with someone all the time from day one.  And it is a real stretching experience to meet the needs of two at the same age/stage.  When God dumps them into your lap by conception you just muddle through, but not everyone is equipped and able to do it by choice and care needs to be taken to ensure the families are equipped to deal with the issues that will arise. 

My fondest desire would be that any families who were willing and able could  take as many children as they could raise, as frequently as their heart and lives could manage, and that money for the travel and adoption costs would never need to be an issue.   Then there would at least be the hope that all orphans could have a family to grow up in and parents to be loved by.  So I dream and pray...</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Trish- Please forgive me if I gave any offense.<br />
I would agree that the decison should not be based solely on what is best/convenient/desirous for the parent (although frequently if the parents are benefitted then the whole family- including any adopted children- also benefit).  I would even add that not everyone should be ALLOWED to adopt two unrelated children (just as not every family is allowed to adopt siblings or more than one child period). </p>
<p> Raising my bio twins has taught me alot about how to help them negotiate living with someone all the time from day one.  And it is a real stretching experience to meet the needs of two at the same age/stage.  When God dumps them into your lap by conception you just muddle through, but not everyone is equipped and able to do it by choice and care needs to be taken to ensure the families are equipped to deal with the issues that will arise. </p>
<p>My fondest desire would be that any families who were willing and able could  take as many children as they could raise, as frequently as their heart and lives could manage, and that money for the travel and adoption costs would never need to be an issue.   Then there would at least be the hope that all orphans could have a family to grow up in and parents to be loved by.  So I dream and pray&#8230;</p>
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		<title>By: Trish</title>
		<link>http://www.adoptionintegrity.com/2007/05/22/artificial-twinning/comment-page-1/#comment-1920</link>
		<dc:creator>Trish</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 29 Jun 2008 01:18:26 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.adoptionintegrity.com/2007/05/22/artificial-twinning/#comment-1920</guid>
		<description>Joanie,

Did you see my comment &quot;I don’t doubt that there are some benefits to being adopted simultaneously with another child&quot;

I wasn&#039;t trying to say that there were no benefiits to being adopted simultaneously.  My post pointed out that most of the arguments were about the benefits to the parents, not the child.  And pointed out that in a country where individuals don&#039;t benefit from finanically from pushing through as many adoptions as possible, these restrictions have been put into place.

There are many flaws in the Australian adoption system, I don&#039;t deny that for a second.  But the focus here is defintiely on the child, not the parents.

I have long though that what would be ideal would be a compromise somewhere between the Australian system and the US system.

In an ideal world......sigh....</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Joanie,</p>
<p>Did you see my comment &#8220;I don’t doubt that there are some benefits to being adopted simultaneously with another child&#8221;</p>
<p>I wasn&#8217;t trying to say that there were no benefiits to being adopted simultaneously.  My post pointed out that most of the arguments were about the benefits to the parents, not the child.  And pointed out that in a country where individuals don&#8217;t benefit from finanically from pushing through as many adoptions as possible, these restrictions have been put into place.</p>
<p>There are many flaws in the Australian adoption system, I don&#8217;t deny that for a second.  But the focus here is defintiely on the child, not the parents.</p>
<p>I have long though that what would be ideal would be a compromise somewhere between the Australian system and the US system.</p>
<p>In an ideal world&#8230;&#8230;sigh&#8230;.</p>
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		<title>By: Joanie</title>
		<link>http://www.adoptionintegrity.com/2007/05/22/artificial-twinning/comment-page-1/#comment-1919</link>
		<dc:creator>Joanie</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 28 Jun 2008 14:43:02 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.adoptionintegrity.com/2007/05/22/artificial-twinning/#comment-1919</guid>
		<description>I had not planned on commenting again, but as a mental health professional would like to say it is NOT NECESSARILY in the best interest of the child to be raised without a &#039;twin&#039;.  I would like to submit the following: 
 •	Adopting two children simultaneously from the same country can be very affirming, bringing added feelings of confidence as the children are enfolded into a family of a different culture/ethnicity.  They are a support for each other and can encourage a continued connection with their homeland while they bond with their adopted family and new life.   They will have someone who looks like them and speaks their native tongue alongside as they acculturate

•	From anecdotal evidence as well as the limited amount of research available, young children who are adopted from orphanages adjust better and quicker when there is a child/children near to their own age in the home.  They are accustomed to others in the baby house and see the others there as siblings.  They have spent every moment they can remember sleeping, eating, bathing and playing with similar aged children in their group. They miss the camaraderie when no similar aged children are present.  

•	The adaptation of boys in particular (birthed or adopted) to any new addition of a sibling is complicated.   They do not have the natural mothering instinct little girls possess.  It is common for them to feel rejected and resentful if another child is added to the family within a year or two of their entrance.  The subsequent travel to adopt a second child just when the first adopted child is settling in can be a very disrupting experience.  If the parents travel again without the first adopted child, serious abandonment issues can arise.  If, however, two boys join the family together, their acclimation is much easier since no one must leave for a second adoption trip.  Also, as we noticed with our girls, they will have known no other status in the family except that of sharing attention, so sibling issues of displacement are lessened.

 •	While the actual adoption costs will be roughly doubled, travelling costs will essentially remain the same or increase only slightly.  Time considerations in terms of total work and income lost by parents will be decreased with one trip instead of two (or four if a two-trip adoption is required in each case), causing less financial stress on the family as a whole.   

These are significant arguments FOR adopting two of the same age at once. 
 
I cannot account for why Austrailia has the restrictions they do.  On the surface they look to be sound guidelines. although I would like to see the evidence/research they base their practices on.  Just be aware that highly-regulated, government-run, nobody financially profits situations do not necessarily translate into healthiest, wisest and best.  Look at the old USSR and other Communist regimes as examples!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I had not planned on commenting again, but as a mental health professional would like to say it is NOT NECESSARILY in the best interest of the child to be raised without a &#8216;twin&#8217;.  I would like to submit the following:<br />
 •	Adopting two children simultaneously from the same country can be very affirming, bringing added feelings of confidence as the children are enfolded into a family of a different culture/ethnicity.  They are a support for each other and can encourage a continued connection with their homeland while they bond with their adopted family and new life.   They will have someone who looks like them and speaks their native tongue alongside as they acculturate</p>
<p>•	From anecdotal evidence as well as the limited amount of research available, young children who are adopted from orphanages adjust better and quicker when there is a child/children near to their own age in the home.  They are accustomed to others in the baby house and see the others there as siblings.  They have spent every moment they can remember sleeping, eating, bathing and playing with similar aged children in their group. They miss the camaraderie when no similar aged children are present.  </p>
<p>•	The adaptation of boys in particular (birthed or adopted) to any new addition of a sibling is complicated.   They do not have the natural mothering instinct little girls possess.  It is common for them to feel rejected and resentful if another child is added to the family within a year or two of their entrance.  The subsequent travel to adopt a second child just when the first adopted child is settling in can be a very disrupting experience.  If the parents travel again without the first adopted child, serious abandonment issues can arise.  If, however, two boys join the family together, their acclimation is much easier since no one must leave for a second adoption trip.  Also, as we noticed with our girls, they will have known no other status in the family except that of sharing attention, so sibling issues of displacement are lessened.</p>
<p> •	While the actual adoption costs will be roughly doubled, travelling costs will essentially remain the same or increase only slightly.  Time considerations in terms of total work and income lost by parents will be decreased with one trip instead of two (or four if a two-trip adoption is required in each case), causing less financial stress on the family as a whole.   </p>
<p>These are significant arguments FOR adopting two of the same age at once. </p>
<p>I cannot account for why Austrailia has the restrictions they do.  On the surface they look to be sound guidelines. although I would like to see the evidence/research they base their practices on.  Just be aware that highly-regulated, government-run, nobody financially profits situations do not necessarily translate into healthiest, wisest and best.  Look at the old USSR and other Communist regimes as examples!</p>
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		<title>By: Trish</title>
		<link>http://www.adoptionintegrity.com/2007/05/22/artificial-twinning/comment-page-1/#comment-1917</link>
		<dc:creator>Trish</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 28 Jun 2008 02:55:39 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.adoptionintegrity.com/2007/05/22/artificial-twinning/#comment-1917</guid>
		<description>it intrigues me that much of the debate here AGAINST artificial twinning relates to the fact that it might slow down the process for other adoptive PARENTS.  

Does not anyone stop and think about whether it might have an impact on the CHILD?  

Here in Australia, artificial twinning in adoption is not allowed.  Neither is adopting more than one child at a given time, unless they are a sibling group.  There are also restrictions on the age of the child in relation to existing children in the family - an adopted child MUST be the youngest in the family by at least 2 years.  You must then wait at least 12 months before adding another child to the family (except in the rare cases of bio children obviously).

WHY have all these been restrictions been put into place?  Well, hmmm, lets see.....could it be perhaps that its in the best interests of the CHILD?  to have their new parents undivided attention for at least 12 months following their adoption?....and not to have to deal with the power struggles that are often found when a previously &#039;eldest&#039; child has their position usurped?

I don&#039;t doubt that there are some benefits to being adopted simultaneously with another child.  BUT its interesting to note that these restrictions are in place in Australia....where adoption is NOT an industry, but a highly regulated, government-run situation, where nobody profits....but they are not in place in the US...where the more babies adopted, the more money lining the pockets of those running the show.....

I just hope that will give you some food for thought....</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>it intrigues me that much of the debate here AGAINST artificial twinning relates to the fact that it might slow down the process for other adoptive PARENTS.  </p>
<p>Does not anyone stop and think about whether it might have an impact on the CHILD?  </p>
<p>Here in Australia, artificial twinning in adoption is not allowed.  Neither is adopting more than one child at a given time, unless they are a sibling group.  There are also restrictions on the age of the child in relation to existing children in the family &#8211; an adopted child MUST be the youngest in the family by at least 2 years.  You must then wait at least 12 months before adding another child to the family (except in the rare cases of bio children obviously).</p>
<p>WHY have all these been restrictions been put into place?  Well, hmmm, lets see&#8230;..could it be perhaps that its in the best interests of the CHILD?  to have their new parents undivided attention for at least 12 months following their adoption?&#8230;.and not to have to deal with the power struggles that are often found when a previously &#8216;eldest&#8217; child has their position usurped?</p>
<p>I don&#8217;t doubt that there are some benefits to being adopted simultaneously with another child.  BUT its interesting to note that these restrictions are in place in Australia&#8230;.where adoption is NOT an industry, but a highly regulated, government-run situation, where nobody profits&#8230;.but they are not in place in the US&#8230;where the more babies adopted, the more money lining the pockets of those running the show&#8230;..</p>
<p>I just hope that will give you some food for thought&#8230;.</p>
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		<title>By: Trish</title>
		<link>http://www.adoptionintegrity.com/2007/05/22/artificial-twinning/comment-page-1/#comment-1916</link>
		<dc:creator>Trish</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 28 Jun 2008 02:47:06 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.adoptionintegrity.com/2007/05/22/artificial-twinning/#comment-1916</guid>
		<description>Shalena, have you ever been to China?  

Most babies don&#039;t wear diapers....mothers in the street/in their homes hold their babies over drains/toiles and either &#039;they learn to urinate on cue&#039;...(or possibly it&#039;s that the mothers become attuned to their child&#039;s rhythms).

My advice to you,go to China and see for yourself before you write something that you do not have the slightest idea about!

PS - I agree with you about the conditions in Chinese orphanages, just the toileting situation has nothing to do with orphanages.  and I would never normally make such a rude comment as the one above....</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Shalena, have you ever been to China?  </p>
<p>Most babies don&#8217;t wear diapers&#8230;.mothers in the street/in their homes hold their babies over drains/toiles and either &#8216;they learn to urinate on cue&#8217;&#8230;(or possibly it&#8217;s that the mothers become attuned to their child&#8217;s rhythms).</p>
<p>My advice to you,go to China and see for yourself before you write something that you do not have the slightest idea about!</p>
<p>PS &#8211; I agree with you about the conditions in Chinese orphanages, just the toileting situation has nothing to do with orphanages.  and I would never normally make such a rude comment as the one above&#8230;.</p>
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		<title>By: Joanie</title>
		<link>http://www.adoptionintegrity.com/2007/05/22/artificial-twinning/comment-page-1/#comment-974</link>
		<dc:creator>Joanie</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 16 Jan 2008 22:03:21 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.adoptionintegrity.com/2007/05/22/artificial-twinning/#comment-974</guid>
		<description>This has been a helpful site so far.  I am a 50 year old mom who birthed identical twin 16 year olds.  Our family is considering/hoping to adopt a Eurasian boy age 1-3, and eventually adopt twin girls from SE asia (Thailand, Vietnam, etc.) in the 3-6 year old age range.  My husband and I are also both social workers, so alot of the considerations brought up here definately interest me.  Any info out there for older parents looking to adopt in this geo area?  Also most of the demand seems to be for babies... any info regarding slightly older children?  Thanks so much!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>This has been a helpful site so far.  I am a 50 year old mom who birthed identical twin 16 year olds.  Our family is considering/hoping to adopt a Eurasian boy age 1-3, and eventually adopt twin girls from SE asia (Thailand, Vietnam, etc.) in the 3-6 year old age range.  My husband and I are also both social workers, so alot of the considerations brought up here definately interest me.  Any info out there for older parents looking to adopt in this geo area?  Also most of the demand seems to be for babies&#8230; any info regarding slightly older children?  Thanks so much!</p>
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		<title>By: Christina</title>
		<link>http://www.adoptionintegrity.com/2007/05/22/artificial-twinning/comment-page-1/#comment-125</link>
		<dc:creator>Christina</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 15 Jul 2007 00:32:36 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.adoptionintegrity.com/2007/05/22/artificial-twinning/#comment-125</guid>
		<description>Shalena, 
The reality is, Vietnam is not at all like China.  There are not thousands of babies waiting in orphanages. In fact, there is a 6 - 24 month wait for a baby from Vietnam.  I think it&#039;s safe to say that every single (relatively healthy) child under the age of 3 who is legally adoptable in Vietnam will be placed in a family.  And when one family adopts two unrelated children at the same time, they are in effect making the wait that much longer for everyone behind them.  Is that fair?  And many studies have shown that a newly adopted child needs to have time, at least 6 months to a year to adjust to their new family and bond, and during that time they need to be the focus of attention.  Many agencies (and some countries) will not allow families to adopt two unrelated children within a year of each other for this reason.  No one wants children to waste away in orphanages waiting for a family.  But the reality is in nearly every country where inter-country adoptions are allowed, there are more families waiting to adopt than children available.  Even in China, there&#039;s a 2 year backlog of waiting families. So while we all wish every baby had a loving family from the moment they were born, I think we need to remember that there are processes and procedures in place for a reason, and the primary reason is to protect the children.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Shalena,<br />
The reality is, Vietnam is not at all like China.  There are not thousands of babies waiting in orphanages. In fact, there is a 6 &#8211; 24 month wait for a baby from Vietnam.  I think it&#8217;s safe to say that every single (relatively healthy) child under the age of 3 who is legally adoptable in Vietnam will be placed in a family.  And when one family adopts two unrelated children at the same time, they are in effect making the wait that much longer for everyone behind them.  Is that fair?  And many studies have shown that a newly adopted child needs to have time, at least 6 months to a year to adjust to their new family and bond, and during that time they need to be the focus of attention.  Many agencies (and some countries) will not allow families to adopt two unrelated children within a year of each other for this reason.  No one wants children to waste away in orphanages waiting for a family.  But the reality is in nearly every country where inter-country adoptions are allowed, there are more families waiting to adopt than children available.  Even in China, there&#8217;s a 2 year backlog of waiting families. So while we all wish every baby had a loving family from the moment they were born, I think we need to remember that there are processes and procedures in place for a reason, and the primary reason is to protect the children.</p>
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		<title>By: shalena</title>
		<link>http://www.adoptionintegrity.com/2007/05/22/artificial-twinning/comment-page-1/#comment-124</link>
		<dc:creator>shalena</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 15 Jul 2007 00:01:55 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.adoptionintegrity.com/2007/05/22/artificial-twinning/#comment-124</guid>
		<description>ok now that I am a little calmer. I did not know that there was such a thing as artificial twinning  but It made me cry tears of joy to hear that it would be possible to adopt two little girls at one time. My husband and I were terribly sad when we heard that we could only adopt one baby at a time. I wanted twins, we were pregnant with twins and we ended up losing them through miss carriage I actually was directing my last post to the first gal in this blog. I have a friend whom is a doctor and she adopted both her babies from china but at different times. I loved those girls. I helped take care of them for a year
it was wonderful. Even though they were not related biologically they were such a joy in my life. I could not imagine anything better than having two little girls to love. I got to see what the orphanages were like and all of the babies all of them had flat heads in back. Can you imagine that? Also, the orphanages spend all  the money ont he children not one penny is wasted. Not one. So, I ask you, are you really serious that you think they are doing it out of some sort of alterer motive? these are babies, human little ones, that no one picks up snuggles with, plays with they are so busy just meeting their basic needs that keep them so busy.
Is it too much to ask you to have it in your heart to say, it is the right thing to do, to save a child the heartbreak of getting too &quot; old &quot; to be adopted. Its people like you that make it hard for people like us who love children to give homes to the ones that we are able to.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>ok now that I am a little calmer. I did not know that there was such a thing as artificial twinning  but It made me cry tears of joy to hear that it would be possible to adopt two little girls at one time. My husband and I were terribly sad when we heard that we could only adopt one baby at a time. I wanted twins, we were pregnant with twins and we ended up losing them through miss carriage I actually was directing my last post to the first gal in this blog. I have a friend whom is a doctor and she adopted both her babies from china but at different times. I loved those girls. I helped take care of them for a year<br />
it was wonderful. Even though they were not related biologically they were such a joy in my life. I could not imagine anything better than having two little girls to love. I got to see what the orphanages were like and all of the babies all of them had flat heads in back. Can you imagine that? Also, the orphanages spend all  the money ont he children not one penny is wasted. Not one. So, I ask you, are you really serious that you think they are doing it out of some sort of alterer motive? these are babies, human little ones, that no one picks up snuggles with, plays with they are so busy just meeting their basic needs that keep them so busy.<br />
Is it too much to ask you to have it in your heart to say, it is the right thing to do, to save a child the heartbreak of getting too &#8221; old &#8221; to be adopted. Its people like you that make it hard for people like us who love children to give homes to the ones that we are able to.</p>
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