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	<title>Comments on: HBG, AYAP(Healthy Baby Girl, As Young As Possible)</title>
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	<description>A collaborative blog advocating ethics in adoption</description>
	<pubDate>Mon, 01 Dec 2008 20:55:57 +0000</pubDate>
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		<title>By: Ana</title>
		<link>http://www.adoptionintegrity.com/2007/08/06/hbg-ayaphealthy-baby-girl-as-young-as-possible/#comment-1651</link>
		<dc:creator>Ana</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 25 Apr 2008 05:08:39 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.adoptionintegrity.com/2007/08/06/hbg-ayaphealthy-baby-girl-as-young-as-possible/#comment-1651</guid>
		<description>If people cannot request gender or a healthy child or a child with only certain health probs or a certain age etc,  less people would adopt and less kids would find homes.  Instead of making value judgments because of someones belief system, encourage what gets the most kids adopted.  Isn't that the goal?  

If we all adopted for the right reasons fertile folks would only adopt.  As it stands far less folks who can give birth, choose to adopt.  I would love to see fertile folks adopt because they can pick  gender or whatever instead of having.  Again more kids would find homes.  

Are those making the comments adopting only because they are infertile?  If so those comments about those "bad" people choosing gender are hypocritical.  By your logic God doesn't want you to have kids by birth, so you are circumventing with adoption ,and that is ridiculous. You want a child. Thats not diff than wanting a daughter vs a son. One person said they would trust God but  maybe still would request a daughter( ie not trust God?).  The logic doesn't hold.  Go forth, be loving build a life that is as meaningful as possible.The rest is beyond our control filled with unfairness senseless tragedy and filled with awe and wonder and beauty.  If you want a daughter find her.  Who is to say that God didn't give you boys so you would look for a girl.  I do think that the only point is in how much compassion we can show, not what kind of God there is or is not or how much the infinite universe is micro managed.

There are honorable reasons for having preferences.  Some folks request healthy kids and they choose not to get pregnant because they are olderand know the risks of a handicapped child are greater. Or carry a bad genetic trait Or they have one handicapped child and cannot manage a second handicapped child.  Or they know they cannot manage a sick child without it destroying their marriage or take so many resources away from other kids that college or braces are out.   OR they have several of one gender and would only choose to have ie adopt another if they can control gender.  Its interesting no one is talking about Haitian or African babies--plenty of girls there.   

It would seem from some of the comments that if the parent is not a theist that they have no business adopting because they are  not leaving it in the hands of a Biblical God.  What about Buddhists, Hindus?  Faiths that do not have a similar concept of a God?  Should Muslim parents not adopt kids born Christian if they don't raise them Christian and vice verso?

What about not stripping a child of the religion of their birth just because they are adopted?  We can be inter-religious here - pulling the best form many faiths, honoring them, participating in them, without being condemned by any God who is loving.   Ethnic religious communities are one of the main ways adoptive kids have to connect with and feel one with their birth culture and community and language and music. Their link to the adopted culture will be so automatic and we should not take away the small threads that allow them to glimpse and truly understand where they came from.

That does not include recently converted communities to a western faith.  The subtle culture is most accurately understood in its original faiths, not just its newer ones.

My brother is internationally inter-racially adopted as is his wife and as are some of my kids.  They would have liked a traditional ethnic wedding but her parents wanted a European Christian one.  It hurt them greatly but they complied, never even voicing their preferences.  She said she knew after a lifetime of bing raised Christian that her parents viewed all other faiths as less legitimate and was too loving herself to stress her parents.  They wanted a certain type of wedding to honor their own sense of loss and renewal.  They can never have that moment back.  Their wedding was not their own.

Don't feel guilty because you hope for a certain child: healthy, happy girl or boy, musical or artistic, or that you increase your chances for that child.  Just make sure that once they are in your midst that you love them, who they are, not what you project them to be, but whatever they are inside.  That applies to birth and adopted kids alike. There is no difference in the parenting experience when we love that intimately. The day my daughter tells me she wishes she could know her birth mom will be one of the happiest days from me because it will mean she fees she can share the most intimate secret parts of her pain with me.  That sharing is what makes me her mother.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>If people cannot request gender or a healthy child or a child with only certain health probs or a certain age etc,  less people would adopt and less kids would find homes.  Instead of making value judgments because of someones belief system, encourage what gets the most kids adopted.  Isn&#8217;t that the goal?  </p>
<p>If we all adopted for the right reasons fertile folks would only adopt.  As it stands far less folks who can give birth, choose to adopt.  I would love to see fertile folks adopt because they can pick  gender or whatever instead of having.  Again more kids would find homes.  </p>
<p>Are those making the comments adopting only because they are infertile?  If so those comments about those &#8220;bad&#8221; people choosing gender are hypocritical.  By your logic God doesn&#8217;t want you to have kids by birth, so you are circumventing with adoption ,and that is ridiculous. You want a child. Thats not diff than wanting a daughter vs a son. One person said they would trust God but  maybe still would request a daughter( ie not trust God?).  The logic doesn&#8217;t hold.  Go forth, be loving build a life that is as meaningful as possible.The rest is beyond our control filled with unfairness senseless tragedy and filled with awe and wonder and beauty.  If you want a daughter find her.  Who is to say that God didn&#8217;t give you boys so you would look for a girl.  I do think that the only point is in how much compassion we can show, not what kind of God there is or is not or how much the infinite universe is micro managed.</p>
<p>There are honorable reasons for having preferences.  Some folks request healthy kids and they choose not to get pregnant because they are olderand know the risks of a handicapped child are greater. Or carry a bad genetic trait Or they have one handicapped child and cannot manage a second handicapped child.  Or they know they cannot manage a sick child without it destroying their marriage or take so many resources away from other kids that college or braces are out.   OR they have several of one gender and would only choose to have ie adopt another if they can control gender.  Its interesting no one is talking about Haitian or African babies&#8211;plenty of girls there.   </p>
<p>It would seem from some of the comments that if the parent is not a theist that they have no business adopting because they are  not leaving it in the hands of a Biblical God.  What about Buddhists, Hindus?  Faiths that do not have a similar concept of a God?  Should Muslim parents not adopt kids born Christian if they don&#8217;t raise them Christian and vice verso?</p>
<p>What about not stripping a child of the religion of their birth just because they are adopted?  We can be inter-religious here - pulling the best form many faiths, honoring them, participating in them, without being condemned by any God who is loving.   Ethnic religious communities are one of the main ways adoptive kids have to connect with and feel one with their birth culture and community and language and music. Their link to the adopted culture will be so automatic and we should not take away the small threads that allow them to glimpse and truly understand where they came from.</p>
<p>That does not include recently converted communities to a western faith.  The subtle culture is most accurately understood in its original faiths, not just its newer ones.</p>
<p>My brother is internationally inter-racially adopted as is his wife and as are some of my kids.  They would have liked a traditional ethnic wedding but her parents wanted a European Christian one.  It hurt them greatly but they complied, never even voicing their preferences.  She said she knew after a lifetime of bing raised Christian that her parents viewed all other faiths as less legitimate and was too loving herself to stress her parents.  They wanted a certain type of wedding to honor their own sense of loss and renewal.  They can never have that moment back.  Their wedding was not their own.</p>
<p>Don&#8217;t feel guilty because you hope for a certain child: healthy, happy girl or boy, musical or artistic, or that you increase your chances for that child.  Just make sure that once they are in your midst that you love them, who they are, not what you project them to be, but whatever they are inside.  That applies to birth and adopted kids alike. There is no difference in the parenting experience when we love that intimately. The day my daughter tells me she wishes she could know her birth mom will be one of the happiest days from me because it will mean she fees she can share the most intimate secret parts of her pain with me.  That sharing is what makes me her mother.</p>
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		<title>By: Pho For Four &#187; Blog Archive &#187; Why Requesting AYAP and H are Different Than Requesting BG</title>
		<link>http://www.adoptionintegrity.com/2007/08/06/hbg-ayaphealthy-baby-girl-as-young-as-possible/#comment-204</link>
		<dc:creator>Pho For Four &#187; Blog Archive &#187; Why Requesting AYAP and H are Different Than Requesting BG</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 05 Sep 2007 13:48:29 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.adoptionintegrity.com/2007/08/06/hbg-ayaphealthy-baby-girl-as-young-as-possible/#comment-204</guid>
		<description>[...] If this topic does interest you, hopefully you&#8217;ve also read the post on VVAI. [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] If this topic does interest you, hopefully you&#8217;ve also read the post on VVAI. [...]</p>
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		<title>By: Edna</title>
		<link>http://www.adoptionintegrity.com/2007/08/06/hbg-ayaphealthy-baby-girl-as-young-as-possible/#comment-192</link>
		<dc:creator>Edna</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 31 Aug 2007 21:29:31 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.adoptionintegrity.com/2007/08/06/hbg-ayaphealthy-baby-girl-as-young-as-possible/#comment-192</guid>
		<description>No one has posted on this conversation in over a week so maybe no one will see this but I still want to say it. :) I am somewhat against gender selection. I have always said, just as some of you have that if I was pregnant I would not get to choose. However, if I was pregnant I would have  a 50 - 50 chance of having a boy or a girl. I have a son now and am currently going with no preference for my second child. If, however, my second is a boy and the climate in the adoption world is the same by the time we are ready for a third I think it is likely we will choose to have a girl. If stating no preference is a guaranteed boy. Not because it would be so bad to have a third boy but because at that point you are still really making a choice. I hope that made some sense. I can't tell if I am saying it clearly. Anyway, I just really wanted to present my point of you. I also wanted to say that if gender selection were not an option across the board (if no one at any agency could choosing making it a  true even shot on both sides) I would still adopt three and would not be upset if I wound up with three boys. Well, maybe a little disappointed but no more than someone who gets pregnant and has that scenario.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>No one has posted on this conversation in over a week so maybe no one will see this but I still want to say it. <img src='http://www.adoptionintegrity.com/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_smile.gif' alt=':)' class='wp-smiley' /> I am somewhat against gender selection. I have always said, just as some of you have that if I was pregnant I would not get to choose. However, if I was pregnant I would have  a 50 - 50 chance of having a boy or a girl. I have a son now and am currently going with no preference for my second child. If, however, my second is a boy and the climate in the adoption world is the same by the time we are ready for a third I think it is likely we will choose to have a girl. If stating no preference is a guaranteed boy. Not because it would be so bad to have a third boy but because at that point you are still really making a choice. I hope that made some sense. I can&#8217;t tell if I am saying it clearly. Anyway, I just really wanted to present my point of you. I also wanted to say that if gender selection were not an option across the board (if no one at any agency could choosing making it a  true even shot on both sides) I would still adopt three and would not be upset if I wound up with three boys. Well, maybe a little disappointed but no more than someone who gets pregnant and has that scenario.</p>
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		<title>By: Gina</title>
		<link>http://www.adoptionintegrity.com/2007/08/06/hbg-ayaphealthy-baby-girl-as-young-as-possible/#comment-181</link>
		<dc:creator>Gina</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 20 Aug 2007 21:57:50 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.adoptionintegrity.com/2007/08/06/hbg-ayaphealthy-baby-girl-as-young-as-possible/#comment-181</guid>
		<description>Jena,
When you inquired of Holt in 2005, do you know if you specifically spoke with the Vietnam program staff?  While it is true that Holt did not/does not allow gender selection in many of their country programs, they did allow it for Vietnam up until late 2006.  When we adopted through them in early 2003, the Vietnam program director said prospective adoptive parents were more or less requesting an equal number of boys and girls.  Once that changed and the scale tipped strongly toward girls (which occurred with the re-opening of the program last year), Holt changed its policy regarding gender preference for Vietnam.  Holt currently has families who have been waiting over a year now for girls aged 0-24 months, but that should transition in a few months to all waiting families being gender neutral.
-Gina (AP)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Jena,<br />
When you inquired of Holt in 2005, do you know if you specifically spoke with the Vietnam program staff?  While it is true that Holt did not/does not allow gender selection in many of their country programs, they did allow it for Vietnam up until late 2006.  When we adopted through them in early 2003, the Vietnam program director said prospective adoptive parents were more or less requesting an equal number of boys and girls.  Once that changed and the scale tipped strongly toward girls (which occurred with the re-opening of the program last year), Holt changed its policy regarding gender preference for Vietnam.  Holt currently has families who have been waiting over a year now for girls aged 0-24 months, but that should transition in a few months to all waiting families being gender neutral.<br />
-Gina (AP)</p>
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		<title>By: Jena</title>
		<link>http://www.adoptionintegrity.com/2007/08/06/hbg-ayaphealthy-baby-girl-as-young-as-possible/#comment-180</link>
		<dc:creator>Jena</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 17 Aug 2007 13:12:27 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.adoptionintegrity.com/2007/08/06/hbg-ayaphealthy-baby-girl-as-young-as-possible/#comment-180</guid>
		<description>Interesting Heather-
We first looked into Holt in late 2005, at that time we were told that we would need to be open to a child of either gender.....that is where I based my information.  We ultimately did not choose Holt, so perhaps this was while they were changing their policy????
This was prior to when they had their lisence...</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Interesting Heather-<br />
We first looked into Holt in late 2005, at that time we were told that we would need to be open to a child of either gender&#8230;..that is where I based my information.  We ultimately did not choose Holt, so perhaps this was while they were changing their policy????<br />
This was prior to when they had their lisence&#8230;</p>
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		<title>By: Heather</title>
		<link>http://www.adoptionintegrity.com/2007/08/06/hbg-ayaphealthy-baby-girl-as-young-as-possible/#comment-179</link>
		<dc:creator>Heather</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 16 Aug 2007 16:54:11 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.adoptionintegrity.com/2007/08/06/hbg-ayaphealthy-baby-girl-as-young-as-possible/#comment-179</guid>
		<description>I'd like to correct one "fact" that was mentioned in the original post and then again in the comments.  I am a client with Holt and am in the process of completing my 4th adoption with them, 2 from China and now 2 from Vietnam.  I was allowed to state my preference for a girl in my homestudy for three of the four adoptions (I was not allowed to do so for the 1st adoption in 1996 - but since I was in the China program odds were overwhelming that I would be matched with a girl.)  I know that sometime in the later half of last year, Holt changed policy for the Vietnam program and are requiring families who have entered the program since that time to be open to either gender.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I&#8217;d like to correct one &#8220;fact&#8221; that was mentioned in the original post and then again in the comments.  I am a client with Holt and am in the process of completing my 4th adoption with them, 2 from China and now 2 from Vietnam.  I was allowed to state my preference for a girl in my homestudy for three of the four adoptions (I was not allowed to do so for the 1st adoption in 1996 - but since I was in the China program odds were overwhelming that I would be matched with a girl.)  I know that sometime in the later half of last year, Holt changed policy for the Vietnam program and are requiring families who have entered the program since that time to be open to either gender.</p>
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		<title>By: Melinda</title>
		<link>http://www.adoptionintegrity.com/2007/08/06/hbg-ayaphealthy-baby-girl-as-young-as-possible/#comment-176</link>
		<dc:creator>Melinda</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 15 Aug 2007 21:35:44 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.adoptionintegrity.com/2007/08/06/hbg-ayaphealthy-baby-girl-as-young-as-possible/#comment-176</guid>
		<description>I *may* take you up on that.  It would definitely be a tough one.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I *may* take you up on that.  It would definitely be a tough one.</p>
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		<title>By: Nicki</title>
		<link>http://www.adoptionintegrity.com/2007/08/06/hbg-ayaphealthy-baby-girl-as-young-as-possible/#comment-175</link>
		<dc:creator>Nicki</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 15 Aug 2007 04:11:22 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.adoptionintegrity.com/2007/08/06/hbg-ayaphealthy-baby-girl-as-young-as-possible/#comment-175</guid>
		<description>Melinda - I welcome you (or any of you other brilliant thinkers who have particpated in this enlightening thread) to tackle the subject! I may try, myself. I'm feeling inspired. But if someone wants to, as well (or instead!) please don't hesitate to email something in and we'll post it!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Melinda - I welcome you (or any of you other brilliant thinkers who have particpated in this enlightening thread) to tackle the subject! I may try, myself. I&#8217;m feeling inspired. But if someone wants to, as well (or instead!) please don&#8217;t hesitate to email something in and we&#8217;ll post it!</p>
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		<title>By: Melinda</title>
		<link>http://www.adoptionintegrity.com/2007/08/06/hbg-ayaphealthy-baby-girl-as-young-as-possible/#comment-174</link>
		<dc:creator>Melinda</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 15 Aug 2007 02:55:56 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.adoptionintegrity.com/2007/08/06/hbg-ayaphealthy-baby-girl-as-young-as-possible/#comment-174</guid>
		<description>I realize that there is more to an ethical adoption than what I wrote about (especially concerning ayap and asap).  It's such a large subject, and there are so many facets to it, that it couldn't possibly be covered in one comment, maybe not even in just one blog entry.  But you are right in that they should all be covered in a discussion of ethics as they are all intertwined.

The pull for your child is very strong and very personal .  Looking back to see the bigger picture, Vietnam adoptions and it's process as a whole, is not easy.

Personally, I think the biggest question is this:  Once ethics are defined, how much of a moral obligation do I have as a PAP to ensure that my adoption is ethical?  

It's such a complex subject - ethics, values, moral obligation.  It would be a really tough but interesting topic set to take on.  Do I see a 3-part series, Nicki?  ;)  Either way, all you ladies have given me a lot to think about and I appreciate the dialogue.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I realize that there is more to an ethical adoption than what I wrote about (especially concerning ayap and asap).  It&#8217;s such a large subject, and there are so many facets to it, that it couldn&#8217;t possibly be covered in one comment, maybe not even in just one blog entry.  But you are right in that they should all be covered in a discussion of ethics as they are all intertwined.</p>
<p>The pull for your child is very strong and very personal .  Looking back to see the bigger picture, Vietnam adoptions and it&#8217;s process as a whole, is not easy.</p>
<p>Personally, I think the biggest question is this:  Once ethics are defined, how much of a moral obligation do I have as a PAP to ensure that my adoption is ethical?  </p>
<p>It&#8217;s such a complex subject - ethics, values, moral obligation.  It would be a really tough but interesting topic set to take on.  Do I see a 3-part series, Nicki?  <img src='http://www.adoptionintegrity.com/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_wink.gif' alt=';)' class='wp-smiley' />  Either way, all you ladies have given me a lot to think about and I appreciate the dialogue.</p>
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		<title>By: Nicki</title>
		<link>http://www.adoptionintegrity.com/2007/08/06/hbg-ayaphealthy-baby-girl-as-young-as-possible/#comment-173</link>
		<dc:creator>Nicki</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 15 Aug 2007 01:06:19 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.adoptionintegrity.com/2007/08/06/hbg-ayaphealthy-baby-girl-as-young-as-possible/#comment-173</guid>
		<description>Melinda - you bring up a great point about the definition of ethical. I think ethics are a little easier to define than morals and values but the three get intertwined quite often. I also think that, easier or not, no one will ever agree on what constitutes an ethical adoption. It would be a great topic for a blog entry, itself!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Melinda - you bring up a great point about the definition of ethical. I think ethics are a little easier to define than morals and values but the three get intertwined quite often. I also think that, easier or not, no one will ever agree on what constitutes an ethical adoption. It would be a great topic for a blog entry, itself!</p>
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