Comments on: Irresponsible? http://www.adoptionintegrity.com/2007/10/20/irresponsible/ A collaborative blog advocating ethics in adoption Mon, 01 Dec 2008 21:57:51 +0000 http://wordpress.org/?v=2.6.1 By: PJ http://www.adoptionintegrity.com/2007/10/20/irresponsible/#comment-1903 PJ Sun, 15 Jun 2008 17:39:09 +0000 http://www.adoptionintegrity.com/2007/10/20/irresponsible/#comment-1903 Not necessarily. I'm a single woman and would probably make a better mother to a daughter than to a son. It not written in stone, but I'd prefer to adopt a girl. And people can select what gender they get biologically--the doctor and his wife down the street have that system down pat. Not necessarily. I’m a single woman and would probably make a better mother to a daughter than to a son. It not written in stone, but I’d prefer to adopt a girl. And people can select what gender they get biologically–the doctor and his wife down the street have that system down pat.

]]> By: PJ http://www.adoptionintegrity.com/2007/10/20/irresponsible/#comment-1902 PJ Sun, 15 Jun 2008 17:36:22 +0000 http://www.adoptionintegrity.com/2007/10/20/irresponsible/#comment-1902 You can legally sent private emails to those that request a list of agencies you would recommend not working with. There is nothing wrong with this legally. You can legally sent private emails to those that request a list of agencies you would recommend not working with. There is nothing wrong with this legally.

]]> By: PJ http://www.adoptionintegrity.com/2007/10/20/irresponsible/#comment-1901 PJ Sun, 15 Jun 2008 17:34:42 +0000 http://www.adoptionintegrity.com/2007/10/20/irresponsible/#comment-1901 While we all need to take personal responsibility, it is the government's job to oversee who is ethical and who is not. I would not blame the PAPs--blame the officials who allow them to continue to facilitate adoptions. While we all need to take personal responsibility, it is the government’s job to oversee who is ethical and who is not. I would not blame the PAPs–blame the officials who allow them to continue to facilitate adoptions.

]]> By: PJ http://www.adoptionintegrity.com/2007/10/20/irresponsible/#comment-1900 PJ Sun, 15 Jun 2008 17:31:47 +0000 http://www.adoptionintegrity.com/2007/10/20/irresponsible/#comment-1900 This is an excellent post. I've read these horror stories of mother's being paid thousands of dollars, etc. When you look at some of them logically, they don't make sense as there would be no profit in it as the adopting family isn't paying as much in fees as is purportedly being paid on the other end. Lots of stories get going when issues like these are raised, many of which are false. As stated above, there has been corruption and unethical behavior in adoption since it's inception. It hasn't been made illegal in the US because of the few who look to profit in an unethical/illegal manner. Why it needs to be an all or nothing solution makes no sense. There are many legitimately adoptable babies in orphanges in Vietnam who will not get homes if adoptions are discontinued. Reformation and stable regulations are important, but discontinuing adoptions is throwing the baby out with the bathwater. This is an excellent post. I’ve read these horror stories of mother’s being paid thousands of dollars, etc. When you look at some of them logically, they don’t make sense as there would be no profit in it as the adopting family isn’t paying as much in fees as is purportedly being paid on the other end. Lots of stories get going when issues like these are raised, many of which are false.

As stated above, there has been corruption and unethical behavior in adoption since it’s inception. It hasn’t been made illegal in the US because of the few who look to profit in an unethical/illegal manner. Why it needs to be an all or nothing solution makes no sense. There are many legitimately adoptable babies in orphanges in Vietnam who will not get homes if adoptions are discontinued. Reformation and stable regulations are important, but discontinuing adoptions is throwing the baby out with the bathwater.

]]> By: Em http://www.adoptionintegrity.com/2007/10/20/irresponsible/#comment-1137 Em Sun, 03 Feb 2008 04:00:59 +0000 http://www.adoptionintegrity.com/2007/10/20/irresponsible/#comment-1137 I read all of these disagreements about asking for a certain sex and wanted to share my story. We had three birth children and felt compelled to adopt to give a child a home and complete our family. We did not request a certain sex and recieved a beautiful baby boy from Korea. My son was lonely for someone" just like him" so we adopted another little boy from Korea. This little boy had some special needs. As my son reached 7 years old and we were able to see that his needs were being addressed and he would have an excellent future we decided we wanted to adopt one more time. This time we were willing to take an older child but wanted an Asian girl. An Asian child because we knew from experience that it makes it easier if there are children just like them in the family and a girl because my youngest son wanted to be the youngest boy in the family. We started the procedure in May for Vietnam and are waiting for a referral. After such easy adoptions from Korea, it has been very difficult to deal with the uncertainty of Vietnam which we naively went into. After adopting a special needs child and now waiting for an older child, do people really judge us just because we have asked for a girl? I read all of these disagreements about asking for a certain sex and wanted to share my story. We had three birth children and felt compelled to adopt to give a child a home and complete our family. We did not request a certain sex and recieved a beautiful baby boy from Korea. My son was lonely for someone” just like him” so we adopted another little boy from Korea. This little boy had some special needs. As my son reached 7 years old and we were able to see that his needs were being addressed and he would have an excellent future we decided we wanted to adopt one more time. This time we were willing to take an older child but wanted an Asian girl. An Asian child because we knew from experience that it makes it easier if there are children just like them in the family and a girl because my youngest son wanted to be the youngest boy in the family. We started the procedure in May for Vietnam and are waiting for a referral. After such easy adoptions from Korea, it has been very difficult to deal with the uncertainty of Vietnam which we naively went into. After adopting a special needs child and now waiting for an older child, do people really judge us just because we have asked for a girl?

]]> By: isabella http://www.adoptionintegrity.com/2007/10/20/irresponsible/#comment-414 isabella Fri, 26 Oct 2007 14:12:34 +0000 http://www.adoptionintegrity.com/2007/10/20/irresponsible/#comment-414 Jill, Based on the angry and defensive tone in your response I apologize if I offended or upset you, that was not my intention. I was expressing my opinion as everyone clearly has in this string and do not presume to be 'right'. Including you, none of us who have posted have come up with any concrete ideas as to how to deal with the problems. Some good idea here and there, but overall, none of us have done a supreme job. Don't assume to know how I feel, and I don't recall saying anything negative about the children of VN. I will be a parent to one soon enough and I have nothing but feelings of respect for that country and its people because of it. I don't feel any guilt in regard to our adoption, nor did I say anything about feeling guilty. I trust our agency and feel confident that we did the best research we could. Your tone in challenging me as to whether or not I have children and my lack of 'understanding' was very cold. To answer your question: yes, I had a biological child. She was stillborn. I wish you the best in your adoption. Jill,
Based on the angry and defensive tone in your response I apologize if I offended or upset you, that was not my intention.
I was expressing my opinion as everyone clearly has in this string and do not presume to be ‘right’. Including you, none of us who have posted have come up with any concrete ideas as to how to deal with the problems. Some good idea here and there, but overall, none of us have done a supreme job.
Don’t assume to know how I feel, and I don’t recall saying anything negative about the children of VN. I will be a parent to one soon enough and I have nothing but feelings of respect for that country and its people because of it. I don’t feel any guilt in regard to our adoption, nor did I say anything about feeling guilty. I trust our agency and feel confident that we did the best research we could.

Your tone in challenging me as to whether or not I have children and my lack of ‘understanding’ was very cold. To answer your question: yes, I had a biological child. She was stillborn.

I wish you the best in your adoption.

]]> By: Jill http://www.adoptionintegrity.com/2007/10/20/irresponsible/#comment-406 Jill Thu, 25 Oct 2007 14:29:52 +0000 http://www.adoptionintegrity.com/2007/10/20/irresponsible/#comment-406 Isabella, Do you have any children? If not, then you do not speak for me or anyone else that has biological children. This is why you don't "understand" the whole family balancing thing as you call it. FYI, I saw a report that there is a procedure out there for gender selection and it was IVF. Why don't you switch to an Domestic adoption so you won't have to feel so guilt ridden about the all of the issues that surround International Adoption. You can argue until the cows come home, you will not persuade me to change what I think is best for MY family. MY life, MY BIOLOGICAL children and MY CHOICE of choosing a gender for MY adoption. I will not be leaving my more replies on this board because NOT ONE PERSON that has posted has yet to come up with any type of solution to all of the problems that were discussed. All you want to do is push your opinion to the forefront and have the satisfaction that you are right. Talk about doing justice to the children of Vietnam.....maybe you could donate your last penny to the orphanages and maybe, just maybe you will feel better. If you can not come up with anything postive to say about the children of Vietnam, please keep it yourself!! Isabella,
Do you have any children? If not, then you do not speak for me or anyone else that has biological children. This is why you don’t “understand” the whole family balancing thing as you call it. FYI, I saw a report that there is a procedure out there for gender selection and it was IVF.

Why don’t you switch to an Domestic adoption so you won’t have to feel so guilt ridden about the all of the issues that surround International Adoption.

You can argue until the cows come home, you will not persuade me to change what I think is best for MY family. MY life, MY BIOLOGICAL children and MY CHOICE of choosing a gender for MY adoption.

I will not be leaving my more replies on this board because NOT ONE PERSON that has posted has yet to come up with any type of solution to all of the problems that were discussed. All you want to do is push your opinion to the forefront and have the satisfaction that you are right. Talk about doing justice to the children of Vietnam…..maybe you could donate your last penny to the orphanages and maybe, just maybe you will feel better. If you can not come up with anything postive to say about the children of Vietnam, please keep it yourself!!

]]> By: isabella http://www.adoptionintegrity.com/2007/10/20/irresponsible/#comment-405 isabella Thu, 25 Oct 2007 13:25:14 +0000 http://www.adoptionintegrity.com/2007/10/20/irresponsible/#comment-405 Jill, Most people who go through IVF are doing so to get pregnant first and foremost, because they are unable to without the procedure. I promise you it's not to choose a gender. We attempted it a few times and that discussion or option never came up. I find it interesting that the people adopting who tend to get very defensive about their right to choose the gender of their child tend to be those who already have biological children. You admit that the number of girls requested is a 'red flag', but yet you aren't changing your request. Maybe you already have a referral (in that case, congrats) or your application has been submitted. Sarah, I wholeheartedly agree with what you said. I absolutely believe that if the demand for baby girls continues at the rate it currently is, it *will* have an effect- for all we know it already has. In many countries (the one where I live in fact-I'm american but live abroad), adoptive parents are not allowed to choose gender. In fact, most people are shocked at the idea that it is even an option at all. Aside from the excuse to 'balance out a family", why is it that baby girls are requested so much more than boys? Jill,
Most people who go through IVF are doing so to get pregnant first and foremost, because they are unable to without the procedure. I promise you it’s not to choose a gender. We attempted it a few times and that discussion or option never came up.
I find it interesting that the people adopting who tend to get very defensive about their right to choose the gender of their child tend to be those who already have biological children. You admit that the number of girls requested is a ‘red flag’, but yet you aren’t changing your request. Maybe you already have a referral (in that case, congrats) or your application has been submitted.
Sarah, I wholeheartedly agree with what you said. I absolutely believe that if the demand for baby girls continues at the rate it currently is, it *will* have an effect- for all we know it already has.
In many countries (the one where I live in fact-I’m american but live abroad), adoptive parents are not allowed to choose gender. In fact, most people are shocked at the idea that it is even an option at all.
Aside from the excuse to ‘balance out a family”, why is it that baby girls are requested so much more than boys?

]]> By: Gina http://www.adoptionintegrity.com/2007/10/20/irresponsible/#comment-400 Gina Wed, 24 Oct 2007 07:15:06 +0000 http://www.adoptionintegrity.com/2007/10/20/irresponsible/#comment-400 As long as agencies give PAPs a choice of gender, then PAPs will continue to choose. I do not see how "blame" can be placed on PAPs just because they prefer a boy or a girl. Interestingly, since the Vietnam program reopened, many agencies that began by allowing gender choice do not any longer. They recognized the imbalance and modifed their rules in order to best serve the children. (These seem to be the long-standing, large agencies.) As long as agencies give PAPs a choice of gender, then PAPs will continue to choose. I do not see how “blame” can be placed on PAPs just because they prefer a boy or a girl. Interestingly, since the Vietnam program reopened, many agencies that began by allowing gender choice do not any longer. They recognized the imbalance and modifed their rules in order to best serve the children. (These seem to be the long-standing, large agencies.)

]]> By: Sarah http://www.adoptionintegrity.com/2007/10/20/irresponsible/#comment-398 Sarah Tue, 23 Oct 2007 19:30:07 +0000 http://www.adoptionintegrity.com/2007/10/20/irresponsible/#comment-398 Why shouldn't some of the blame lie with PAPs? There is so terribly little we can control in this process. Why not take control of our adoptions in the tiniest avenue we can - ensuring that every choice we make is one that will not support corruption? Why shouldn’t some of the blame lie with PAPs? There is so terribly little we can control in this process. Why not take control of our adoptions in the tiniest avenue we can - ensuring that every choice we make is one that will not support corruption?

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