Comments on: unintended messages http://www.adoptionintegrity.com/2008/01/15/unintended-messages/ A collaborative blog advocating ethics in adoption Mon, 01 Dec 2008 18:33:10 +0000 http://wordpress.org/?v=2.6.1 By: Christina http://www.adoptionintegrity.com/2008/01/15/unintended-messages/#comment-973 Christina Wed, 16 Jan 2008 22:03:03 +0000 http://www.adoptionintegrity.com/2008/01/15/unintended-messages/#comment-973 Stephanie, No need to be embarrassed - it's understandable why you thought you could do it alone. I'm sorry that isn't the case, it sounds like you had some great help there in VN. Hope you can get things done before they expire - the paperwork process can be so trying! Take care. Stephanie,
No need to be embarrassed - it’s understandable why you thought you could do it alone. I’m sorry that isn’t the case, it sounds like you had some great help there in VN. Hope you can get things done before they expire - the paperwork process can be so trying! Take care.

]]> By: Stephanie http://www.adoptionintegrity.com/2008/01/15/unintended-messages/#comment-972 Stephanie Wed, 16 Jan 2008 21:50:40 +0000 http://www.adoptionintegrity.com/2008/01/15/unintended-messages/#comment-972 Christine, I'm embarrassed. After replying to you I went to the new link and sure enough it was there. I am so discouraged because I did talk to the consulate in October and was assured that we could do it on our own. Our family in Vietnam also checked and said that yes we could proceed on our own. They were going to be acting on our behalf in Vietnam to submit paperwork for us. During our research process we did select an agency but to save time and money decided to go it alone. So we will have to get in touch with them ASAP b/c the the expiration clock is ticking on the things we've already done! sigh Thank you for all that you do. Christine,
I’m embarrassed. After replying to you I went to the new link and sure enough it was there. I am so discouraged because I did talk to the consulate in October and was assured that we could do it on our own. Our family in Vietnam also checked and said that yes we could proceed on our own. They were going to be acting on our behalf in Vietnam to submit paperwork for us. During our research process we did select an agency but to save time and money decided to go it alone. So we will have to get in touch with them ASAP b/c the the expiration clock is ticking on the things we’ve already done! sigh
Thank you for all that you do.

]]> By: Christina http://www.adoptionintegrity.com/2008/01/15/unintended-messages/#comment-971 Christina Wed, 16 Jan 2008 20:37:46 +0000 http://www.adoptionintegrity.com/2008/01/15/unintended-messages/#comment-971 Stephanie, According to the newly updated <a href="http://hanoi.usembassy.gov/adoption_procedures.html" rel="nofollow">US Embassy in Hanoi website</a>: "The Vietnamese government requires parents residing in the United States to employ an adoption agency to assist them <b>throughout the entire process</b>." Truly, there is no way for an American to adopt from Vietnam without the aid of one of the 42 licensed agencies. Stephanie,
According to the newly updated US Embassy in Hanoi website: “The Vietnamese government requires parents residing in the United States to employ an adoption agency to assist them throughout the entire process.”

Truly, there is no way for an American to adopt from Vietnam without the aid of one of the 42 licensed agencies.

]]> By: Audrey http://www.adoptionintegrity.com/2008/01/15/unintended-messages/#comment-970 Audrey Wed, 16 Jan 2008 19:33:47 +0000 http://www.adoptionintegrity.com/2008/01/15/unintended-messages/#comment-970 I agree with Tracy 100%! There is no excuse for our govt. to behave in this fashion. They can talk about ethics all they want but the govt. lets plenty of ethical violations get swept under the rug in other arenas. In my opinion, the CIS has some other agenda. I don't blame the Vietnamese for being offended. I can understand the CIS questioning the orphages if the referrals were coming directly from them, but they're not, and if the Vietnamese govt. has certified that a child is a legal orphan then there is no excuse for our govt. not to accept it. To conduct their own investigations is just the same as saying that the Vietnamese govt. is lying. I just hope that the Vietnamese govt. and people realize that the behavior & rhetoric of the CIS doesn't reflect the beliefs of most PAP's. Most of us are grateful that we are able to adopt in Vietnam, and we believe that the Vietnamese gov't can safeguard the interests of its children without being badgered by the CIS. I agree with Tracy 100%! There is no excuse for our govt. to behave in this fashion. They can talk about ethics all they want but the govt. lets plenty of ethical violations get swept under the rug in other arenas. In my opinion, the CIS has some other agenda. I don’t blame the Vietnamese for being offended. I can understand the CIS questioning the orphages if the referrals were coming directly from them, but they’re not, and if the Vietnamese govt. has certified that a child is a legal orphan then there is no excuse for our govt. not to accept it. To conduct their own investigations is just the same as saying that the Vietnamese govt. is lying.

I just hope that the Vietnamese govt. and people realize that the behavior & rhetoric of the CIS doesn’t reflect the beliefs of most PAP’s. Most of us are grateful that we are able to adopt in Vietnam, and we believe that the Vietnamese gov’t can safeguard the interests of its children without being badgered by the CIS.

]]> By: Stephanie http://www.adoptionintegrity.com/2008/01/15/unintended-messages/#comment-969 Stephanie Wed, 16 Jan 2008 19:15:24 +0000 http://www.adoptionintegrity.com/2008/01/15/unintended-messages/#comment-969 Christine, I have read that statement that you have the link to before. But I called US/VN consulate in October of 2007 and was told at that time they advise that we use an agency but are not required to. The only agency requirement is the homestudy agency must be licensed for international adoption. Thank you for your insight Christine,
I have read that statement that you have the link to before. But I called US/VN consulate in October of 2007 and was told at that time they advise that we use an agency but are not required to. The only agency requirement is the homestudy agency must be licensed for international adoption.
Thank you for your insight

]]> By: Heidi http://www.adoptionintegrity.com/2008/01/15/unintended-messages/#comment-967 Heidi Wed, 16 Jan 2008 14:08:06 +0000 http://www.adoptionintegrity.com/2008/01/15/unintended-messages/#comment-967 That's an interesting perspective, Tracy. I've never thought about it that way. Still, if the VN government said they were going to publish a fee schedule, then I don't think it's crazy to expect them to do that. Still, you're right about Americans often not taking cultural issues into account. I will be teaching a course on cross-cultural communication in a few weeks and will definitely be using some examples from the adoption world in my teaching! That’s an interesting perspective, Tracy. I’ve never thought about it that way. Still, if the VN government said they were going to publish a fee schedule, then I don’t think it’s crazy to expect them to do that. Still, you’re right about Americans often not taking cultural issues into account.

I will be teaching a course on cross-cultural communication in a few weeks and will definitely be using some examples from the adoption world in my teaching!

]]> By: Tracy http://www.adoptionintegrity.com/2008/01/15/unintended-messages/#comment-966 Tracy Wed, 16 Jan 2008 03:35:45 +0000 http://www.adoptionintegrity.com/2008/01/15/unintended-messages/#comment-966 Weird-the first part of that was cut off...here is what I was talking about ........... that the US really wants to see a published list of fees from VN and if they don’t provide that, it might be a deal breaker........ Weird-the first part of that was cut off…here is what I was talking about

……….. that the US really wants to see a published list of fees from VN and if they don’t provide that, it might be a deal breaker……..

]]> By: Tracy http://www.adoptionintegrity.com/2008/01/15/unintended-messages/#comment-965 Tracy Wed, 16 Jan 2008 03:34:28 +0000 http://www.adoptionintegrity.com/2008/01/15/unintended-messages/#comment-965 <<>> Comments along these lines really bother me (nothing personal to Christine, she just happened to be the one that posted it this time). Just like everyone, ethics are important...so I don't want to go down that road-I am not saying turn a blind eye to anything, but we (the USA) are not doing Vietnam any favors by adopting their children, it's exactly the opposite. I feel as if the US gov. is like a bull in a china shop and has no regard for the Vietnamese values or cultures. Yes, a published list of fees is important (although if people want to divert funds away they will do it with a fee schedule or not IMO), but the US gov has not exactly been dipolmatic, from what I have heard, in their investigations and accusations......so why in the world should the Vietnamese gov. really care what the US gov wants? They can adopt their children out to a number of countries, they don't need us. We are lucky to be able to adopt their children, I for one think our government should be using all it's diplomatic skill to solve these issues and not have seemingly blatant disreagard for the DIA or the other government officials. What does it say to them when they (VN) clear a file and say a child is an orphan and our gov. time after time (this is not a few isolated incidents) conducts their own investigation without any seeming respect or regard for the governement officials, orphanages or birthfamilies. I have heard (and it's finally being talked about on the Agency Research board) how offended the VN government is and I don't blame them. We are not the end all be all in this, we are dealing with a country with vastly different values and customs than our own and we need to respect them. We should be working with them, not against them. I was going to say "what kind of unintended messages do you think our Gov. is sending to the DIA", but I honestly think our gov. knows exactly what it's doing and what messages they are sending, they simply don't care who they offend. Again, I know ethics are important, but lets impose our American standards on the American agencies (hold them to the highest possible standards so they won't submit a file that is not in order hoping to slip through the cracks) that is where they belong and when something comes up that requires further investigation, let's use a little tact and diplomacy- I would think the VN gov would appreciate that. The Vietnamese government does not HAVE to work with us at all. The end result of all this pushing and shoving has the very real possiblity of a shut down of this program and not from the US side. Tracy <<>>

Comments along these lines really bother me (nothing personal to Christine, she just happened to be the one that posted it this time). Just like everyone, ethics are important…so I don’t want to go down that road-I am not saying turn a blind eye to anything, but we (the USA) are not doing Vietnam any favors by adopting their children, it’s exactly the opposite. I feel as if the US gov. is like a bull in a china shop and has no regard for the Vietnamese values or cultures. Yes, a published list of fees is important (although if people want to divert funds away they will do it with a fee schedule or not IMO), but the US gov has not exactly been dipolmatic, from what I have heard, in their investigations and accusations……so why in the world should the Vietnamese gov. really care what the US gov wants? They can adopt their children out to a number of countries, they don’t need us. We are lucky to be able to adopt their children, I for one think our government should be using all it’s diplomatic skill to solve these issues and not have seemingly blatant disreagard for the DIA or the other government officials. What does it say to them when they (VN) clear a file and say a child is an orphan and our gov. time after time (this is not a few isolated incidents) conducts their own investigation without any seeming respect or regard for the governement officials, orphanages or birthfamilies. I have heard (and it’s finally being talked about on the Agency Research board) how offended the VN government is and I don’t blame them. We are not the end all be all in this, we are dealing with a country with vastly different values and customs than our own and we need to respect them. We should be working with them, not against them. I was going to say “what kind of unintended messages do you think our Gov. is sending to the DIA”, but I honestly think our gov. knows exactly what it’s doing and what messages they are sending, they simply don’t care who they offend.

Again, I know ethics are important, but lets impose our American standards on the American agencies (hold them to the highest possible standards so they won’t submit a file that is not in order hoping to slip through the cracks) that is where they belong and when something comes up that requires further investigation, let’s use a little tact and diplomacy- I would think the VN gov would appreciate that. The Vietnamese government does not HAVE to work with us at all. The end result of all this pushing and shoving has the very real possiblity of a shut down of this program and not from the US side.

Tracy

]]> By: Christina http://www.adoptionintegrity.com/2008/01/15/unintended-messages/#comment-964 Christina Tue, 15 Jan 2008 23:15:06 +0000 http://www.adoptionintegrity.com/2008/01/15/unintended-messages/#comment-964 Hi Michelle, I really have no idea why they haven't published the fees yet, aside from the issue you mentioned, that the provinces work somewhat independently from the national level. But the DIA has promised the schedule multiple times, including specifically saying it would be published in Sept. '07 (it wasn't)... so clearly they know the US wants it. It was a part of the original agreement, so it seems like a rather reasonable request. Unfortunately, it seems some provinces are getting their feathers ruffled with the new I600 process/investigations so I don't know if that will make it even harder to get their cooperation?? Then again, maybe they will realize the US is really serious and decide to comply? I guess only time will tell. Hi Michelle,
I really have no idea why they haven’t published the fees yet, aside from the issue you mentioned, that the provinces work somewhat independently from the national level. But the DIA has promised the schedule multiple times, including specifically saying it would be published in Sept. ‘07 (it wasn’t)… so clearly they know the US wants it. It was a part of the original agreement, so it seems like a rather reasonable request. Unfortunately, it seems some provinces are getting their feathers ruffled with the new I600 process/investigations so I don’t know if that will make it even harder to get their cooperation?? Then again, maybe they will realize the US is really serious and decide to comply? I guess only time will tell.

]]> By: Michelle http://www.adoptionintegrity.com/2008/01/15/unintended-messages/#comment-963 Michelle Tue, 15 Jan 2008 23:07:00 +0000 http://www.adoptionintegrity.com/2008/01/15/unintended-messages/#comment-963 Hi Christina! Do you have any idea why VN has not published a fee schedule yet? I have heard that it is difficult because of the way the provinces work but I would think that the DIA could establish the fees and if provinces didn't want to follow them the DIA could simply tell them they won't process the adoptions. That said, I'm sure I'm over simplifing this BUT it seems like if VN knows that is a deal breaker and have commited to it in the past, that they could make it happen. Thank you for any insight you have!! Hi Christina!
Do you have any idea why VN has not published a fee schedule yet? I have heard that it is difficult because of the way the provinces work but I would think that the DIA could establish the fees and if provinces didn’t want to follow them the DIA could simply tell them they won’t process the adoptions. That said, I’m sure I’m over simplifing this BUT it seems like if VN knows that is a deal breaker and have commited to it in the past, that they could make it happen.

Thank you for any insight you have!!

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